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	<title>Comments on: Why VCs aren&#039;t investing in Pakistani companies</title>
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		<title>By: techlahore</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>techlahore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, that plugin is not available at wordpress.org. A commercial website upgrade is needed to implement it. In the meanwhile, you can subscribe to RSS feeds to comments on this article by subscribing to:</p>
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		<title>By: techlahore</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>techlahore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ll certainly look into it. If it&#039;s possible to do on wordpress, it shall be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll certainly look into it. If it&#8217;s possible to do on wordpress, it shall be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Sohaib Athar</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Sohaib Athar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>umm... and techlahore, can you somehow add a &#039;subscribe to comments&#039; functionality here, is really needed :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>umm&#8230; and techlahore, can you somehow add a &#8216;subscribe to comments&#8217; functionality here, is really needed <img src='http://www.techlahore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sohaib Athar</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Sohaib Athar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>Qazi, when I mentioned stocks/profit sharing, I had people from my generation (grads from the early 90s, with a decade or so of experience) in mind.
For this &quot;IT generation&quot; what you say is probably true, we don&#039;t have an IPO culture here as such anyway so...

I personally believe that the &#039;give us good salaries&#039; part has to do with what middle/lower class tech grads of this generation have seen while growing up. Their parents/uncles had  &#039;stable government jobs with good pension plans&#039;, they saw their parents grow old and retire from a single post after 30 years, so many of them probably don&#039;t think beyond that. They want their lives charted out in advance and are afraid someone will move their cheese.

I had to hire a couple of people last month for a client,  and interviewed 10 people with 3ish years of experience.
When I mentioned that it&#039;s a new venture with exciting growth prospects if (when) it goes live and does well, I did not see the excitement that I was expecting. On the other hand, almost all of them had questions about the company stability and job security (besides their salaries and increments).
Interestingly though, the guy we ended up hiring was technically the best among the group AND was more interested in the venture than the increments.
Perhaps the next generation will be more daring and passionate about it all than their fathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Qazi, when I mentioned stocks/profit sharing, I had people from my generation (grads from the early 90s, with a decade or so of experience) in mind.<br />
For this &#8220;IT generation&#8221; what you say is probably true, we don&#8217;t have an IPO culture here as such anyway so&#8230;</p>
<p>I personally believe that the &#8216;give us good salaries&#8217; part has to do with what middle/lower class tech grads of this generation have seen while growing up. Their parents/uncles had  &#8216;stable government jobs with good pension plans&#8217;, they saw their parents grow old and retire from a single post after 30 years, so many of them probably don&#8217;t think beyond that. They want their lives charted out in advance and are afraid someone will move their cheese.</p>
<p>I had to hire a couple of people last month for a client,  and interviewed 10 people with 3ish years of experience.<br />
When I mentioned that it&#8217;s a new venture with exciting growth prospects if (when) it goes live and does well, I did not see the excitement that I was expecting. On the other hand, almost all of them had questions about the company stability and job security (besides their salaries and increments).<br />
Interestingly though, the guy we ended up hiring was technically the best among the group AND was more interested in the venture than the increments.<br />
Perhaps the next generation will be more daring and passionate about it all than their fathers.</p>
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		<title>By: techlahore</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>techlahore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Completely agree with you, Qazi. Anyone that has experience hiring and retaining employees at tech companies in Pakistan has experienced what you are referring to.

Basically, there is a &quot;world is ending&quot; fear which then drives a grabby sort of attitude. I&#039;ve heard many folks talk about how the going is good now, but it will soon go to hell like it did post-millennium-bug and so you&#039;ve got to get as much cold hard cash as possible.

The other thing I&#039;ll point out is that giving shares to employees can be a management nightmare given corporate structures in Pk. It requires disclosures that not all startups can make or are comfortable making. It can trigger intervention and unwelcome involvement on the part of former employees - rather than being a vehicle to reward people, it can become a pain to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree with you, Qazi. Anyone that has experience hiring and retaining employees at tech companies in Pakistan has experienced what you are referring to.</p>
<p>Basically, there is a &#8220;world is ending&#8221; fear which then drives a grabby sort of attitude. I&#8217;ve heard many folks talk about how the going is good now, but it will soon go to hell like it did post-millennium-bug and so you&#8217;ve got to get as much cold hard cash as possible.</p>
<p>The other thing I&#8217;ll point out is that giving shares to employees can be a management nightmare given corporate structures in Pk. It requires disclosures that not all startups can make or are comfortable making. It can trigger intervention and unwelcome involvement on the part of former employees &#8211; rather than being a vehicle to reward people, it can become a pain to deal with.</p>
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		<title>By: Qazi</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Qazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Sohaib: you have some very nice points there, but even with companies offering them vested shares this is not happening (and i am not basing this on assumptions) you offer some one a share in a startup they come back and say we want money right now we don&#039;t know if you will be around in few months.  Even for mature companies (and some do give shares and stock options) employees always say give us good increment and we don&#039;t need shares. And surprisingly this attitude is coming from professionals who entered market in last 2~3 years if you are lucky enough to find some one above that experience level you will experience much more understanding and stability and they might even be ready to shave off their salaries for a small portion of company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sohaib: you have some very nice points there, but even with companies offering them vested shares this is not happening (and i am not basing this on assumptions) you offer some one a share in a startup they come back and say we want money right now we don&#8217;t know if you will be around in few months.  Even for mature companies (and some do give shares and stock options) employees always say give us good increment and we don&#8217;t need shares. And surprisingly this attitude is coming from professionals who entered market in last 2~3 years if you are lucky enough to find some one above that experience level you will experience much more understanding and stability and they might even be ready to shave off their salaries for a small portion of company.</p>
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		<title>By: Sohaib Athar</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Sohaib Athar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-156</guid>
		<description>I may be wrong but I think that you can not expect emotional attachment, motivation and dedication from company employees (read laborers) unless they have a stake in the company&#039;s success, either through profit sharing or stocks, or some other such means.

If someone coming from a middle-class background is getting an above-market rate salary with bi-annual increments, he/she would not want to finish a one-week task in 3 days. On the contrary, he would give a 2 week estimate for a one week project, thereby gaining some free time for himself.
We can not have a Silicon Valley culture in Lahore as our business models are entirely different.
Our tech workers are coding away to develop the IP for international businesses, without any kind of ownership, and hence, no vested interest in thinking beyond the next task at hand or taking their work home with them. Your employees will solve the problems assigned to them, but they will rarely put in much effort beyond that. They don&#039;t need to.
Also, to develop &#039;love&#039; for your product, first you need to have a product - I think that at least more than 50% tech firms in Pakistan are services based. You can&#039;t develop love for serving a certain client.

I think you have answered your own question when you say:
&quot;it’s just hard to see how you motivate a workforce that’s getting 30-50% year-over-year salary increases without having to demonstrate the emotional investment that builds great companies.&quot;

From an average employee&#039;s perspective, if they are getting the above, WHY would they want to demonstrate the emotional investment that builds great companies? They know its not going to be their company, so what&#039;s in it for them?

Give them 1% of the company though, and they&#039;ll  know that a possible 1 billion dollar company evaluation in two years would mean 10 million dollars for them, allowing them to buy that 10 marla house and the car, with some spare cash to take a vacation, and I am confident that you&#039;ll start seeing the emotional investment and all-nighters that are missing from our tech scene, even if the chances of success are 5%.
So, besides a couple of anomalies, how many firms in Lahore are &#039;sharing their company&#039; with their employees? Free pizza doesn&#039;t count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be wrong but I think that you can not expect emotional attachment, motivation and dedication from company employees (read laborers) unless they have a stake in the company&#8217;s success, either through profit sharing or stocks, or some other such means.</p>
<p>If someone coming from a middle-class background is getting an above-market rate salary with bi-annual increments, he/she would not want to finish a one-week task in 3 days. On the contrary, he would give a 2 week estimate for a one week project, thereby gaining some free time for himself.<br />
We can not have a Silicon Valley culture in Lahore as our business models are entirely different.<br />
Our tech workers are coding away to develop the IP for international businesses, without any kind of ownership, and hence, no vested interest in thinking beyond the next task at hand or taking their work home with them. Your employees will solve the problems assigned to them, but they will rarely put in much effort beyond that. They don&#8217;t need to.<br />
Also, to develop &#8216;love&#8217; for your product, first you need to have a product &#8211; I think that at least more than 50% tech firms in Pakistan are services based. You can&#8217;t develop love for serving a certain client.</p>
<p>I think you have answered your own question when you say:<br />
&#8220;it’s just hard to see how you motivate a workforce that’s getting 30-50% year-over-year salary increases without having to demonstrate the emotional investment that builds great companies.&#8221;</p>
<p>From an average employee&#8217;s perspective, if they are getting the above, WHY would they want to demonstrate the emotional investment that builds great companies? They know its not going to be their company, so what&#8217;s in it for them?</p>
<p>Give them 1% of the company though, and they&#8217;ll  know that a possible 1 billion dollar company evaluation in two years would mean 10 million dollars for them, allowing them to buy that 10 marla house and the car, with some spare cash to take a vacation, and I am confident that you&#8217;ll start seeing the emotional investment and all-nighters that are missing from our tech scene, even if the chances of success are 5%.<br />
So, besides a couple of anomalies, how many firms in Lahore are &#8216;sharing their company&#8217; with their employees? Free pizza doesn&#8217;t count.</p>
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		<title>By: Adil Saleem</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Adil Saleem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great article!

VCs need two things a) good idea b) people insane enough make it happen.

The problem is that all of our talent is working for easy cash, not for love or passion. In our culture, developing love for your work is bad. Because then you will be exploited by your employer.

Great products are developed out of love, not in return of X k rupees. Workers do not attract VCs, insane passion to create something beautiful does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!</p>
<p>VCs need two things a) good idea b) people insane enough make it happen.</p>
<p>The problem is that all of our talent is working for easy cash, not for love or passion. In our culture, developing love for your work is bad. Because then you will be exploited by your employer.</p>
<p>Great products are developed out of love, not in return of X k rupees. Workers do not attract VCs, insane passion to create something beautiful does.</p>
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		<title>By: Working for the company, project/product or Person? : Green &#38; White</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Working for the company, project/product or Person? : Green &#38; White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>[...] about that here Be Loyal to people, not to companies and a portion of techlahore&#8217;s blog post Why VCs aren’t investing in Pakistani companies where there is a suggestion that there should be an emotional attachment to the product. Part of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about that here Be Loyal to people, not to companies and a portion of techlahore&#8217;s blog post Why VCs aren’t investing in Pakistani companies where there is a suggestion that there should be an emotional attachment to the product. Part of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Working for the company, project/product or Person? : Green &#38; White</title>
		<link>http://www.techlahore.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/comment-page-1/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Working for the company, project/product or Person? : Green &#38; White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://techlahore.wordpress.com/2007/10/14/why-vcs-arent-investing-in-pakistani-companies/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>[...] about that here Be Loyal to people, not to companies and a portion of techlahore&#8217;s blog post Why VCs aren’t investing in Pakistani companies where there is a suggestion that there should be an emotional attachment to the product. Part of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about that here Be Loyal to people, not to companies and a portion of techlahore&#8217;s blog post Why VCs aren’t investing in Pakistani companies where there is a suggestion that there should be an emotional attachment to the product. Part of [...]</p>
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